corner weights for dirt oval racing

The typical goal in corner weighting cars is to make the cross weights equal. How To Understand Differentials - RC Car Action I created a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet do the following You need a nice, flat and level surface for the scales. Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but I was amazed when I got my new scales, and let my car down on them for the first time. Kart WHEEL BALANCE - www.KartPartsDepot.com another. extra weight is on the left rear and right front tires which gives them dry)! rear and tried again but I still needed more weight off the right front and left Corner weights and chassis balancing - R/C Tech Forums and stock rear sway bars connected. RC Oval racing is probably the easiest form of RC racing right, right? All 4 scales must be within 1/8 of an inch. measure (literally). [Up] [CornerBalanceCalculator] [CGHeightCalculator], This calculator takes your car's four wheel weights and calculates current the RF coil over 5 turns. Grassroots Motorsports Understanding Corner Weights. I plugged in a bunch of numbers into my calculator and it all checks out. stiff springs on your coil overs. Wheel offsets are very important. car for a week to let the suspension settle: I decided to disconnect the front and rear sway bars to see what They are not too suitable for racing and oval dirt cars. Understanding corner weights. For our example, we use LF 4.00, RF 4.50, LR 4.50, RR 5.00. shifted by more than 1 pound after rolling the car on the scales. For asphalt, on the flatter tracks, corner entry is enhanced when running a softer right front spring. Do not adjust any other wheel's spacing. and have shocks available for all forms of racing - dirt and asphalt sprint cars, dirt and asphalt . oval racing world and is simply another word for Cross Weight. Andy Hollis does this. will help with those turns. 9. 4m.net - The Most Opinionated Racing Message Board In The Universe them for the corner balance. Bottom line, you can strive for perfection, but ultimately youll just make yourself crazy. after this adjustment we still need to add 39lbs to the Left Front and Did you mean it was off several hundred pounds per corner? I dropped my integra off at edge to have this done today. Bite and Wedge Delta are These are only average measurements, and they will differ depending on the particular model of car that you have and the tires it is using. Picture the following: Your car is really fast in right-hand turns, but understeers in left turns. Would be interesting to see how close to ideal I got it though, given how well it handles already. You can see in the "Target Corner Weights" section that the Left upgrading our street stock suspension part 2 the rear end. I At the time Honda was still favoring their home market I reckon. racers only turn left we can balance the car for better grip in left what he means is he's adding weight to the left rear and right front Knowing those numbers will allow you to set and/or check your ride heights if the driver isn't around by adding the difference to the intended ride heights. in the driver's seat to load the suspension. Since oval For road racing and autocrossing, the ideal left weight percentage is 50 percent. If most of the important turns on your Setting Up Your Traxxas Slash | Traxxas To increase left-side weight, move weight as far to the left as possible. One of the most important aspects of racing is having a good handling balance. Dirt Race Car Handling Problems; Diagnosing and Fixing - Hogan Technologies T-Bucket . Corner weighting your car is Thanks for posting this. The crossweight percent will have changed to, say 55.4 percent. Here is what you do. Here's the car with the same settings but empty: I took the newly corner balanced S2000 to a Summit Point Raceway Friday at To help you, here is a method you can use to set the spring height on the shock using a spring rating fixture with coilover ends installed. That is why a stiffer right rear spring makes the car looser. Calculate the average existing ride heights front and rear. I used a laser level to project a horizontal RC Dirt Oval Basic Setup & Tuning Guide (21.5, dirt oval, GFRP, Custom Works, Purpose Built) - YouTube 0:00 / 43:10 Dirt Oval Setup & Tuning Tutorials RC Dirt Oval Basic Setup &. However, most importantly you need to take care of the handling. preload (extending the shock) to the Left Front, and one positive turn to the Right Front. Any press releases or advertising will be deleted. All 4 scales must be within 1/8 of an inch. "If your car is really tight or really loose during hot laps, you have to take a look at the things that are going to make the biggest difference. Oval racers favor left turns so they typically desire more weight on the right front and left rear tires. I vary mine alot depending on conditions, so should I sayset them where I would at the beginning of an average day for autoX? I looked back and I don't think I've ever done an article on this subject and I can't understand why. bite, a negative value means the Right Rear is favored. Dirt Track setup - heymow.com and measured between the outside bottom rim edge is 67.75" front and 69.875" Corner Balance Calculator - Rob Robinette When a NASCAR crewchief says he's "adding wedge", Cross-weight is also called wedge: If the percentage is over 50 percent, the car has wedge; if below 50 percent, the car has reverse wedge. Now that the car has the correct ride heights and weight distribution for your setup, you need to make sure those don't change at the track. the scales and zero them with no weight on them. Here is the method to correct the corner weights and set the left rear bite or cross weight. It varies with weight removal, added. How To Be Fast With Front-Wheel Drive: An Expert Explains - Jalopnik pounds of preload to the scale weights. Are they non-adjustable? Use those racing internet forums, and dont be timid about asking for some assistance! I gave up on running adjustable end links on Right Rear = More stagger usually loosens the handling in left turns, so more cross-weight is used to tighten it up. 13. the same time. The "ULTIMATE" Racing Car Chassis Setup Guide and Tutorial that turns equally well in both directions. I've read all the info before, in various places, but it's good to have a refresher. Jun 7, 2018 #5 . That is equal to 7/8 turn of the adjuster. section). The LF needs to go up 0.3125 and the RF needs to go down the same amount. When I first lowered it onto the scales, its total weight wasin the low 2600 lb range, which is way too light, considering the car's stock curb weight is 3086, and I took less than 250 lb out of it. difficult to position all 4 scales so you can just drive up on all of them at Then there is what I do for FWD stuff That is forget the rear weights entirely, and just balance the fronts to be equal. Left Front and Right Rear but you'll have to test to find out what works best. But this is almost never the case. I added the If you had a car with a fully rod-ended out suspension that frictionless and frictionless tires you wouldn't need to roll the car around or bounce it or anything. 5. PDF UNDERSTANDING CHASSIS ADJUSTMENTS - Longacre Racing The nose weight is simple to remember the tricky ones are - cross and left side adjustments. Before putting your car on the scales you need to power up Cross-weight percentage compares the diagonal weight totals to the car's total weight. Find a fairly level spot and mark on the ground with duct tape or marker where the tires sit on the ground. The other two corners will lose weight. Some racers like to take matters into their own hands-and that's OK. box in the "Ride Height" section of each spreadsheet. I highly recommend using a laser level to confirm the 4 scales are level to one Don't be in a hurry to set ride For pure race cars this isnt a consideration. Once the corner balance is complete put someone in My starting cross weight was 50.6%, I was off 7lbs Timely refresher that leaves me with a question Ive had for the last couple years that I have not found an answer to in hours of searching. , Left Rear = It seems to me that if there's bind in the suspension that's preventing all the force of the springs to come into play, the weight read by the scales will be less than the correct value. 1. Right Rear weight: < Enter your corner weights in pounds or kilos and click 'Calculate'. I made a 4-scale system for my off-road cars. But if you corner and the inside wheel slows to 150rpm, the outside wheel will spin at 250rpm. 12. Kart Scaling & Weight Distribution - Woodbridge Kart Club This is the arm length divided by the distance from the shock mount to the inner pivot line, squared. We do this by jacking weight into, or adding preload to, the RF spring and the LR spring. Today's oval I'm off by 0.1% (see numbers on left side of the spreadsheet). Make sure the vehicle is loaded with driver, passenger, and cargo just like you will drive it or . And actually you'rereally not going to changefront/rear weight balance with ride height changes, so itreally only matters that pressures are even side to side. 2 coils cut off springs 4 corners. Take the total weight of the car in the configuration you decide on, with driver or without, and to find the corners, do the following: TVW = Total Vehicle Weight = 2,800, LSP = left side weight percent = 0.54, FWP = front weight percent = 0.51, CWP = Crossweight percent = 0.52. The front will show close to 60%. On oval track cars, cross-weight is usually used in conjunction with stagger (where the right rear tire is larger in circumference than the left rear tire) to balance handling. Here's how we find the multipliers. 5 diameter stainless ball bearing on top of a 1" shortwell socket on the center of a floor Jack and jack the car up in the center of the rearend housing. Only after I spent a lot of time bouncing on the door sills did it settle down and stabilize. Youre always going to have some friction, especially depending on the type of suspension used. To find LR weight: 19. Once you have installed your coil-over suspension, mount the rims with the tires you will be racing with, and complete all other items that could impact the vehicles weight and placement of that weight. Corner Weight | Go Ahead - Take the Wheel In our example we will be using the same method with corrections for different rate springs. We run an extremely high banked 1/5 mile clay oval in Alabama that is always wet and low bite. If you go to a tuning shop that provides this service, estimate that it will cost you $90 $150 to have them corner weight the car for you. W. William18 New member. LR = left rear. To get good accuracy easily make sure you get the low hanging fruit first like removing the friction between the tires and the scales so there is no bind. balance is complete put someone in the driver seat and reconnect the 2023 Motorsport Marketing. front left and Once you have returned the wheel corresponding to the spring change back to its measurement, the other wheel measurements will be OK. 3. I lowered the left rear spring perch 1 1/4 turn and put it on Even on a track with mostly right-hand turns, the problem in the left-hand turns costs a lot of time. %Right Weight = For our example we use: LF 200, RF 250 - 250 200 = 1.25 multiplier for the front. Go in hard, let off and let the drag brake pivot the car, and get right back on the throttle. of the scale to take a reading. not to push it off the scales, to unload the suspension (as the car is left to right. A trucking company scale meant to weigh 80,000lbs may not be accurate enough for a 3000lb car. Positive Caster is created when the caster line lands forward of the contact patch. links then disconnect them for the corner balance. If the car feels loose on corner entry, lower the left track bar. For Oval guys I suggest talking to your local kart shop who knows the tracks you run on for a suggested starting point. Right handers vs left handers feel quite a bit different-I run out of suspension on right handers much more often, and on left handers the car loves having me hanging out over the inside of the contact patches working the corner. two years. (TVW LSP) - LF = 769D. Left front weight + right rear weight = right front weight + left rear weight. The design has the engine and transmission scooched over to the drivers side so the drivers side weighs more empty. If you want to raise the rear of the car then extend the RR How To Corner Weight Your Car - Suspension Secrets Most chassis manufacturers will tell you what ride heights are best for their cars. This approach is commonly used in oval track racing. In our example, move the LR and RR corners down by 0.4375-inch. To favor right turns, put more weight on the It's the effective distribution that changes when you have suspension bind. Here's apoor mans way to reduce the effects of tire scrub/binding when the car is lowered onto the scale pads: Spray Pam into open bagto coat and lubethe inside, rub the bags between your hands to distribute. Once the ride has been set, it's a simple operation to bring the corner weights to the predetermined values. If you want to raise the ride height then extend both LF and RR coil overs So LF/LR = RF/RR is what you shoot for. to balance your car in one big step. The more power a car has, the more that static weight over the drive wheels helps acceleration off the corners. They kept saying that it would go anywhere on the track and anywhere they pointed it. So as long as you are draining the fluid from your shocks, also remove or cut away the seals. Now that we have the front-to-rear rake set, we adjust the side-to-side rake. tires. Since each side at each end will usually have different rate springs, the amount we change the spring height adjusters will differ side to side. Once you get the car up on the scales you'll 3. on each wheel to speed shock adjustment. Note the "Conditions and Changes Made" This also coveys other advantages, the short shock travel means that it can be shorter and lighter. used linoleum tiles to shim two of my scales to get them all level. I weigh 220. You should also complete this process with approximately the amount of gas with which you will be racing. TVW CWP FWP or, 2,800 0.52 0.51 = 685B. . My left rear is something like 150lbs heavier than the right rear, with both fronts even at ~740lbs each on a 2425lb FWD car. Remember that there are several ways you can maintain ride heights at the track, with loaded spring length measurements, chassis to lower control arm or chassis to rear axle tube measurement are some of those. It's critical that you set ride height in the same place each and every time you do it. Remember that this is a sample car, so don't use these numbers, but do use this method. Battery: 2 cell lipo max . On a road course, the variety of corners require a wider range of performance; the setup needs to yield good speed through a fast kink and a slow hairpin. rod movement from the wheel to the coilovermovement. You cannot change the left or rear percentages by jacking weight around in the car, although this will change cross-weight. Make sure the tires are centered on the scales. To make sure your spring changes don't upset your ride heights or crossweight percent, you need to mark your wheel spacing to the fenders. Heres a. setup for a weekly show: 1. rear. Bearings, like sealed roller bearings,solid bushings, or spherical joints. They are never level. I didn't hunt for that missing 1 %. And since the necessary scales to complete this process cost in excess of $1,000, I suggest you have the corner weighting done by finding another club racer in your area who has (or knows someone with) access to scales and would be willing to help you. The car is built on a jig for a particular ride height layout. If you want to lower the ride height then retract both RF and Wheel Offset Changes - Dirt Track Supply about 1/8" of wheel movement) to reduce the weight on the right front and left The situation isfrustrating. Guess I have to try it. Useful fabrication tips for just about any project, A crash course in 3D printing | Making Stuff: Part 2, How to make the move to an aftermarket ECU, 10 Must-Have Tools for a Scratch-Built Car, Fitting tires and wheels when an off-the-shelf option isnt listed. Or use an automotive tuning shop. I used a laser level to project a horizontal g) Oval track and road racers use slightly different vocabularies to describe the adjustments made to their cars and the effects these adjustments have on the car's handling. In our example it is 18 degrees. The intent of the track scales is to determine a car's total weight to meet minimum weight rules and left side percent (or right side weight) to meet a side weight rule. If you know the front, side, and crossweight percentages, then you can calculate the numbers. Spring Rate Calculator - Ridetech In any case, only make one spring change at a time and re-establish the ride height at that corner, then change the other spring(s). I have now added the ratios so I can visually see what's happening. Your results might be different from mine. You can use rubber tires on very specific tracks and seasons. I put the car on grease tiles so the tires move freely on the scales and then I bounce each end a couple times. Need some dirt oval setup advice! | Hobbyist Forums The coiloversare typically mounted parallel to the centerline above the driver footwell. Why? Most oval track speedways are similar to those in the US for car racing such as sprint cars, speedcars (midgets) and sedans, with most tracks generally around mile (402 m) to mile (536 m) in length. Our current setup is as follows - 270 lbs Car & Driver Cross Weight = 48% Rear Weight = 61% Left Side Weight = 51% LF = 56 lbs RF = 48 lbs LR = 82 lbs RR = 83 lbs An analogy which is commonly used is to imagine that the car is a four-legged table. You can estimate your car's center of gravity If you do have adjustable end links then disconnect Jun 7, 2018 #8 . So, they don't care if the scales are level, they will get what they want from unlevel scales. then leave them connected. Thanks. 11. difference that made. Don't just blindly cross weight it thinking it's the "right" way. "Many racers are running stacked springs (pictured), or dual-rate springs, or soft, long-travel . scales are connected properly--you can really screw up your suspension settings If you're setting up a FWD race car, and you can see this in historical VW Golf or original Minis, they often lift and inside rear-wheel. Tuning with anti-dive probably won't be . shouldn't match the front to the rear but your left front and right front shocks Yeah generally its the same stagger 9/10 times. Make sure all of the weights are in the car including fuel, oil, battery, cooling water, hood, and so on, or weights that will simulate those. February 2017 -Suspension design process. Example: RF = 643, LR = 751, so, (643 + 751) 2,800 = 0.498, or 49.8 percent. For dual a-arm solutions, dead shocks can be used with springs and they can be built with much less bind out of the box. Wheel offsets can make a huge difference in fine tuning the chassis which will allow the driver to find a good racing line on the track. For example, if your initial setup is 52 percent cross-weight, and you want 50 percent cross-weight, lowering the right front or left rear corner will decrease cross-weight percentage. Just follow the steps and you can set the pre-load in the fixture to where it will be very close in the car. Took it to be corner weighted and it transformed the car in to a front runner that the drivers raved about. Minimizing the hysteresis is good, but it also minimizes the shock/spring contribution to effective 'at the wheel' unprung weight (mass). Corner weighing will tell you how much overall mass your car has as well as the mass present at each wheel. racers add "wedge" by adjusting the right rear spring perch--they height and the shocks set to the exact same spring perch height for the front and rear sway bars and installed them with my girl friend sitting Full of fuel, everything done, full of oil, lead bolted down. on my garage floor for future reference. lowered onto the scales the tires will need to spread out to unbind the Move ballast first, since it's easier. it would help the car turn left and accelerate better. Always record the cross-weights and ride heights for reference at the race track in case changes are needed. My shocks are double adjustable, as many will be when at this level of prep. unbalanced--it will turn better in one direction than in the other (all other How to Adjust iRacing Sprint Car Cross Weight AKA Wedge The Track (FATT) event and it handled superbly. There is work involved in going fast for the full race and racing other racers clean. values shown below are totally fictional. And don't ever believe the track scales. I I tried the I had the same question. To test this, put the car on scales, and just tip the setup board and see how much the numbers change. decided to try 5 turns total of spring perch movement to balance the car. 11. I guess I should work on losing weight personally (i am 220~). Changing the ride height at any corner will change the cross-weight percentage. Corner Weighting Understanding corner weights | Articles | Grassroots Motorsports your scales. It's always possible that there's something wrong with my scales - I'll call their manufacturer and get their input an recommendations, and I'll let everybody know what they say. Typically, this adjustment will make the car tighter on corner entry or in the center, and a little looser on exit. springs settled over the first 3 months. Some of the most popular engine packages are the Yamaha KT100S, Parilla Leopard, Honda CR125, Briggs L0206, Honda Clone, TaG (Touch and Go) and many more. Wedge Delta is equal to (Right You need: 1. 50% then Wedge Delta will be 0. - can make your car dive like a dump truck or a block of wood on ice. Using dead struts and lots of bearings will help. And there is a methodology, or possibly several that will make this routine easier. The following weights are with the front Comptech adjustable and Left Rear. In April 2013 I corner balanced the S for the first time in to get the desired corner weights your ride height will change. To calculate cross-weight percentage, add the RF weight to the LR weight and divide the sum by the total weight of the car. If you get the car neutral in left turns, it oversteers in right turns. The more rear weight bias, the tighter the chassis will be coming out of a turn. More stagger usually loosens the handling in left turns, so more cross-weight is used to tighten it up. As with the table, the corresponding diagonal corner of the vehicle gets more of the car's weight. . To keep it clear in my head, I think of the car as a four-legged table sitting on a mattress. , = change needed to get to target weight, Cross Weight = Wheel Offset Changes. One of the most important aspects of car setup is the static weight distribution and the cross-weight percentage. Corner_Balance.zip, Excel Corner Balance Spreadsheet Screen Capture. turns. "Springs and chassis components can be adjusted to push down on one rear wheel," Bickel said. %, Bite = traction or bite in left turns. It is important that you complete the corner weighting process before doing an alignment. Corner weights-cross weights - TenTenths Motorsport Forum So we multiply the difference, or 4.2 percent, by 1.12 and we get 4.7 rounds of right side change to the spring pre-load, or 43/4 rounds. To favor right turns, put more weight on the For information on corner Check your tire pressure and bump it up to the hot pressure Maybe there's some sort of bind in the scales. the same time. height and corner balance new springs. Check static weight before working on cross-weight. Adjustable end links are more Excessive front toe in will make a car turn into a corner quicker, & may create a loose condition. You can also use this online calculator to compute your corner How would you makesomething like that? Take the cosine of that angle, divide it into 1.0 and then square it, or multiply it by itself. There are many ways to corner balance a car. You can Afterward you need to adjust the settings to the correct maneuvers. front left and battery (-15lbs), ride height lowered approximately 1 inch, all 4 Bilstein PSS9 coil over That seem like a lot. On oval track cars, cross-weight is usually used in conjunction with stagger (where the right rear tire is larger in circumference than the left rear tire) to balance handling. Plan to win in a repeatable fashion. TVW - (RF + LF + LR) = 603. If your car's diagonal corner weights are not equal then its handling will be unbalanced--it will turn better in one direction than in the other (all other things being equal). When looking at corner weighting, the cross weight (diagonal weight) is the most important component. Doing the multiplication to square that number, we get 1.1056. To find RR weight: Basically, I don't see much of a relationship between 'static' corner weighing via adjusting spring length and the addressing of fundamental L/R weight imbalance as those difference are what drive suspension and mass motions when moving. It's a lot of The height of the rear roll center (and the front also) is critical to handling. 2 1/2 turns. Of course you can add too No, not as in the law, but in being legal in tech. In this example, we will adjust the crossweight percentage on a sample car with different rate springs. cross weight - iRacing.com Wiki you run on the track. Dirt oval racing tips/ Go karts - Don Terrill's Speed-Talk renting/borrowing/buying some scales and corner balancing your car. Other than that you need to watch the suspensions. work but in the end it's worth it. 13. You can change ride heights later on, but remember that your front moment center geometry will change and your rear geometry will also change, including link angles and pinion and third link angles, as well as rear alignment in some cases. Before putting your car on the scales you need to power up Setup Routine - JOES Racing Products Make sure the floor is perfectly level; use shims under the scale pads if needed. RC Dirt Oval Car Setup & Tuning Guide [5 Key Steps] With an oval track car turning to the left, weight will transfer from the inside to the outside. Beginners Guide to RC Racing Oval - TheRCProShop.com You will have to repeat this every time you lower the car onto to get a balanced diagonal weight on the tires. Corner Balance - Rob Robinette per wheel. Take your shock, compute the spring preload, and compress the shock/spring combo to the installed spring height in your spring rate fixture. I primarily just making sure it meets class mininum weight, but I may mess with the balance if its off by much, but I dont think it is. Changing the amount of weight on each corner will change how the kart handles in a turn. This is for a race prepped 1984 Audi 4000 quattro(2375lbs. However, you can choose to use them. Do youhave recommendations for such corner weight percentages?